Durham & Northumberland Rugby Forum

League Rugby => Durham & Northumberland One => Topic started by: Bezz on May 23, 2017, 05:31:32 PM

Title: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Bezz on May 23, 2017, 05:31:32 PM
From Ray Kelly Ref; N Yorks Sub Committee  last night.
Guisborough in DN1 - Boro level transferred to Yorks 1.
Not sure if  Boro have  appealed
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: olfaithful on May 23, 2017, 05:34:28 PM
Good to meet old friends again Ray.
Would have been OK to meet new ones in Y1, but economics of travel etc make this a sensible position to be in.
Shame no Acklam in here as well, but I suspect they will waltz through DN2 after their valiant efforts in Y1 last season.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: bfg on May 24, 2017, 01:01:46 PM
This doesn't seam fair when Middlesbrough havve already done a stint in Yorkshire1, Acklam have done two whilst Guisborough, a Yorkshire club, who can join the A19 south at the Tontine have not been in Yorkshire One even though they are a Yorkshire club
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: No. 6 to Middlegate on May 24, 2017, 01:42:20 PM
This doesn't seam fair when Middlesbrough havve already done a stint in Yorkshire1, Acklam have done two whilst Guisborough, a Yorkshire club, who can join the A19 south at the Tontine have not been in Yorkshire One even though they are a Yorkshire club

On the other hand Guisboro' have been affiliated to the D&N leagues since they started, I believe, while Middlesbro' have been with Yorkshire up to a couple of years ago.  Admittedly both are geographically in Yorkshire so better one of them than say Stockton or Barnard Castle
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Roverthemoon on May 24, 2017, 03:18:18 PM
I'm sure Middlesbrough would consider an appeal if they 'won' the mileage count

There's also Redcar to consider of course as the third of a trio of Yorkshire clubs currently in the DN1 listing

The Tontine point is an interesting one since that just might produce a lower cumulative travel than Middlesbrough's. One for Number 6 to consider perhaps?
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Hit Man Hall on May 24, 2017, 09:23:46 PM
Why cant there be 15 teams in DN1 to include Middlesbrough and Guisborough, and cover there home games with Durham Referees, seems like a better idea.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Renegade on May 24, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
It's a canny drive from High Spen to Guisborough mate
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Teessidewire on May 24, 2017, 09:29:02 PM
This doesn't seam fair when Middlesbrough havve already done a stint in Yorkshire1, Acklam have done two whilst Guisborough, a Yorkshire club, who can join the A19 south at the Tontine have not been in Yorkshire One even though they are a Yorkshire club

On the other hand Guisboro' have been affiliated to the D&N leagues since they started, I believe, while Middlesbro' have been with Yorkshire up to a couple of years ago.  Admittedly both are geographically in Yorkshire so better one of them than say Stockton or Barnard Castle
[/quote The whole thing is ridiculous. Whoever gets transferred doubles their travel, which is never good for player availability. The RFU needs to urgently sort something out re this rubbish. Last year Penrith were placed in North One East, which meant a long trip every other week.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Hit Man Hall on May 24, 2017, 09:35:33 PM
It makes sense to level transfer a Northumberland side to Cumbria, Ponteland are probably the closest in comparison.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Hit Man Hall on May 24, 2017, 09:36:45 PM
Medicals would be a good shout... :-X
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: No. 6 to Middlegate on May 25, 2017, 12:09:14 AM


The Tontine point is an interesting one since that just might produce a lower cumulative travel than Middlesbrough's. One for Number 6 to consider perhaps?

Apparently not.  Google Maps seems to show that the journey from Middlesbrough Rugby Club to the Tontine is 7 miles shorter than from Guisborough Rugby Club.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: No. 6 to Middlegate on May 25, 2017, 12:19:23 AM
It makes sense to level transfer a Northumberland side to Cumbria, Ponteland are probably the closest in comparison.

The corresponding level 7 North West league to DN1 seems to be Cumbria and North Lancs.  The North Lancs clubs will be further away from Ponteland than inter Yorkshire travel. 
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: bfg on May 25, 2017, 08:13:06 AM
What about the factor that it's easier shorter and cheaper and less time consuming for the 13 other clubs in D&N 1 to get to Middlesbrough than to travel further to Guisborough
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: TheGuv on May 25, 2017, 08:52:42 AM
I quite enjoy the bus trip  8)

Also if in any doubt, arguably Middlesbrough's greatest achievement was in the Yorkshire Cup Final when they beat Roundhay (now Yorkshire Carnegie) 10-9 in 1976

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Cup_(rugby_union)
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: rock25 on May 25, 2017, 09:09:52 AM
if Yorkshire is so big is there not an argument to split the county? east and west or north and south? then get rid of all these Yorkshire teams from D&N. However i would also miss the bus trips... Rockcliff had a great day at Guisborough the season just gone
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Renegade on May 27, 2017, 10:36:54 AM
I think the clubs who are always being involved in the level transfers and don't like the idea of being in Y1 are showing a little bit of double standards really.

Just looked and they ALL played in the Yorkshire cups last season. Why don't you want to be on Y1 then? I know it's tougher standard and more travel but come on, you are all Yorkshire clubs in my eyes.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Badgerbear77 on May 27, 2017, 12:06:42 PM
I think the most sensible suggestion I have seen is to split Yorkshire league's into north and south. I agree though if your in dn rugby you should be in the Durham cups and represent Durham county in rep rugby... not yorkshire
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Hit Man Hall on May 27, 2017, 05:04:57 PM
I think the clubs who are always being involved in the level transfers and don't like the idea of being in Y1 are showing a little bit of double standards really.

Just looked and they ALL played in the Yorkshire cups last season. Why don't you want to be on Y1 then? I know it's tougher standard and more travel but come on, you are all Yorkshire clubs in my eyes.

Well double standard indeed you may say, but Penrith are in NE1 and they play
In the Cumbria cup! Why not send them back to NW1 and cancel the relegation of Durham City. That way Middlesbrough could also be in D&N1
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Renegade on May 27, 2017, 08:24:45 PM
I understand the reasoning for wishing to play in DN divisions but when you are a "genuine" Yorkshire club playing in their cup competition you shouldn't complain when asked to switch to balance the leagues.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: No. 6 to Middlegate on May 27, 2017, 09:18:02 PM
I think the clubs who are always being involved in the level transfers and don't like the idea of being in Y1 are showing a little bit of double standards really.

Just looked and they ALL played in the Yorkshire cups last season. Why don't you want to be on Y1 then? I know it's tougher standard and more travel but come on, you are all Yorkshire clubs in my eyes.

Well double standard indeed you may say, but Penrith are in NE1 and they play
In the Cumbria cup! Why not send them back to NW1 and cancel the relegation of Durham City. That way Middlesbrough could also be in D&N1

I suspect it is because there is no space in NW1.  I imagine Penrith would also have expected to go back to NW1 but it looks like 2 clubs from that area were relegated from North 1.  Interesting that they have agreed to another season being level transferred though.  Normally it would have been another club. 
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Hit Man Hall on May 28, 2017, 09:29:36 AM
I suspect it is because there is no space in NW1.  I imagine Penrith would also have expected to go back to NW1 but it looks like 2 clubs from that area were relegated from North 1.  Interesting that they have agreed to another season being level transferred though.  Normally it would have been another club.
[/quote]

Penrith volunteered to level transfer at end of 2015-16 season, they may have thought it was an easier route back to National 3N considering the opposition in NW1 with Kirby Longsdale thrashing everyone.

Renagade made reference to Yorkshire clubs having double standards in being in Yorkshire cups, I agree that Yorkshire clubs should be in the Yorkshire cups, being in the Y1 is a completely different situation why should they have to suffer financially and socially having to spend extra funding on travel, leaving for an away game at 10am in he middle of winter and becoming strangers to their own club due to being on the road for hours, most teams want to get back to the clubhouse in time at least before last orders...

Question for Renagade, which cup competition do you think Guisborough should be in (Durham) or (Northumberland)?
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Renegade on May 28, 2017, 10:23:52 AM
As I said Hit Man, I understand the reasons for all the North Yorkshire/Teeside clubs wanting to play in the DN divisions, geography, time and cost being the main reasons as you've said.

They are however genuine Yorkshire clubs, they are affiliated to the Yorkshire Rugby Union and Referee Societies and play in their cup competitions. So when one of the clubs are required to play in Y1 my argument is that they can't complain as that is their competition, they are allowed to play in DN as a courtesy and they greatly add to the competition and are great clubs but this annual debate centres around which clubs feel it's unfair?

To be honest I don't see why they all don't affiliate to Durham play in our cups and get refereed by us while they are part of the "Durham" set up.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Hit Man Hall on May 28, 2017, 07:32:25 PM
I think there should be some definitive boarders, and if it means having an extra team in the league then so be it, I said in a earlier thread that the leagues should be smaller with D&NorthYorks1 as well as D&N1 shuffle a few clubs around and even play the league similar to the CANDY League where there is promotion and relegation mid season that would make it more interesting. Could even introduce something's like the top 4 clubs at mid season play top Lancs/Cumbria clubs, I believe the north west counties have a similar problem with boarders so could make 3 leagues over there also being Lancs, north Lancs & Cumbria and Cumbria.  Just a thought...
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Prioryman on May 30, 2017, 10:45:11 AM
Well bfg you'll now have to put up with Guisborough next season, the fixtures are out. I realise this will be deeply disappointing to most of DN1.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Renegade on May 30, 2017, 04:35:53 PM
Nothing against Guis or any of the Yorkshire clubs who get caught in the annual merrygoround PrioryMan and I suspect that goes for most on here, I would hate to be a club who gets caught in the terminal problem and I don't know what the answer is to be honest.

Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Bigbill on May 30, 2017, 04:39:06 PM
Not so young man you are allways welcome at H/Peterlee.Ive had some great nights out in Guisborough as well so roll on next season.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Bezz on May 30, 2017, 06:26:16 PM
Well we're back anyway! and thanx for the welcoming posts in this thread.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: olfaithful on May 30, 2017, 08:46:15 PM
Get a bit fed up with explaining this every season.
The leagues are not organised on a County basis but by the North RFU Commitee on behalf of the RFU.
They are just using names (eg Y1 or DN1) used for convenience.
The County Cups are a different matter, being run by each of the County Unions.
So yes it is not unusual in various parts of England to be a member of a County Union but in a differently named league.
Bring on next season so we can bitch about the rugby.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Renegade on May 30, 2017, 09:42:30 PM
We need something to pontificate over olfaithful or the only debates would be the weekly score predictions. I agree, the new season can't come quick enough though.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: atilla on June 04, 2017, 10:43:14 AM
As I said Hit Man, I understand the reasons for all the North Yorkshire/Teeside clubs wanting to play in the DN divisions, geography, time and cost being the main reasons as you've said.

They are however genuine Yorkshire clubs, they are affiliated to the Yorkshire Rugby Union and Referee Societies and play in their cup competitions. So when one of the clubs are required to play in Y1 my argument is that they can't complain as that is their competition, they are allowed to play in DN as a courtesy and they greatly add to the competition and are great clubs but this annual debate centres around which clubs feel it's unfair?

To be honest I don't see why they all don't affiliate to Durham play in our cups and get refereed by us while they are part of the "Durham" set up.
It wouldn't make a jot of difference though.
Level transfer is a league issue, not County.
All clubs in the Leagues signed up knowing the the roolz on league numbers and that level transfer will be used to balance the numbers.

It's interesting to see all the comments about how travel can be a pain across the D&N area and that it can have an adverse effect on clubs, if only due to work commitments and the like.
And yet, it seems some don't care a stuff for the clubs on the Durham/Yorks border area. Very much an i'm alright jack attitude.

Let's just suppose all the clubs who are technically/historically in Yorkshire, move over to the Yorkshire leagues. What would be the outcome?
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Prioryman on June 06, 2017, 04:02:07 PM
I'm with atilla. I think a lot of the dn clubs are desperate to get rid of us to Yorkshire.  To say as some do that Yorkshire clubs are in dn leagues as a courtesy is nonsense,  years ago we opted for the dn leagues to cut travel costs and historically most of our fixtures were with clubs north of Tees.If Guis were in Yorkshire leagues we would be playing in Hull, Halifax, Doncaster, Keighley.  Do realise how far those trips are ?  Our problems in North One last season were caused by an horrific long term injury list to key players but also to unavailabilities due to work.  You try going to Doncaster with half a side.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Renegade on June 06, 2017, 05:29:28 PM
This topic is an annual situation for what looks like the same 4 clubs Prioryman, Acklam, Boro, Redcar and yourselves as you are the 4 sides who go between DN2/1 and Y1 every year and are consistently around levels 6/7/8. How you are ever expected to get consistency or retain players when you don't know which league you're in every season would test most clubs.

I have fond memories of all 4 clubs and don't think you should be pushed into "Yorkshire" just debating the annual troubles of the 4 clubs who annually have to operate with an axe above your heads.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Neil Roseberry on June 07, 2017, 12:55:50 PM
l'm all for North Yorkshire teams competing in the DN league system and have many fond memories of games (followed by raucous nights out) in Whitby, Guisborough, Wensleydale, Northallerton then closer to home at Redcar, Guisborough and Middlesbrough.

A quick way to cut out the arguments and promote a sense of belonging and unity would be to rebrand to Durham, Northumberland and North Yorkshire. At least that way we'd all be getting what was written on the tin.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: redredwine on June 07, 2017, 06:09:02 PM
A view from over the hill .........Penrith were asked if they wanted to stay in N1E as 2 clubs ,Carlisle and Douglas (Isle of Man ) gained promotion . At the same time Stockport, Waterloo and Cleckheaton were relegated . So even though Kirkby Lonsdale and Birkenhead Park went up into Premier 3 North (BP beat Penrith in the play off) there was always going to be too many teams Also Coming down into Premier 3 North were Preston Grasshoppers.
In terms of distance Penrith have always had to travel . South Yorkshire and Humberside is a nice run out and we'll have the pleasure of going to Bridlington for a day out and some nice fish and chips . It's no worse than having to go to South Manchester and we've had some good games in the North East and met some new teams and had some great hospitality.
Looking at other postings regarding fixtures at lower levels, the Cumbria 2 league which consists of mostly second and Junior first teams only managed to fulfil 59 games out of a potential 244. Some of the West Coast teams get a nose bleed if they have to travel east of Cockermouth!
Consequently Penrith 2 play their rugby in the North West Intermediate leagues in Lancashire and Manchester so they have to travel every other Saturday . Their local derby was Carnforth 1st ... that's only a 80 mile round trip!
And as for the County Cup don't get me started . The final was between Carlisle and St Benedicts. Bennies managed to get to the final without playing a game. Their opponents couldn't be bothered with cancellations and dis agreements over who to play when ,where and when. County Cup Rugby in Cumbria is a joke.. a lot of people think it's not worth the hassle.
Anyway , back to looking at the Lakeland summer which has eliminated all risk of a drought
TTFN   
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Teessidewire on June 07, 2017, 06:32:51 PM
In the years prior to league rugby Stockton's first away trip of the season was always the first and second teams going to Penrith and on several occasions we speleothems in either the stand or the Clubhouse in order to play in the Penrith sevens the next day. We had some tremendous nights out over the years and Pen always used to return the favour with a beer sodden end of season trip to Stockton, happy days.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: redredwine on June 08, 2017, 03:27:53 PM
Happy days indeed Teesidewire, it was a right of passage visiting Stockton last game of season . Usually ended up in some nightclub in Stockton or the TopHat Club?? in Spennymore. Eventually arrived home some time on Sunday .
Classic example... they wouldn't let Willie Mounsey into the nightclub because he had a red face (he was a farmer) .. said he'd been fighting!
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: NErugbyfan on June 12, 2017, 05:32:56 PM
So will Guisborough be hoping to avoid promotion this season if travelling around Yorkshire is too much for them?
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Roverthemoon on June 12, 2017, 10:49:18 PM
It would appear so......over to Guisborough to answer.

Suspect they'll be aiming for third place or lower ha ha.
Title: Re: Guisborough back in DN1
Post by: Bezz on June 16, 2017, 12:52:05 PM
It's all to difficult ....We'll just show up and see how it goes ;)