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Messages - No. 6 to Middlegate

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1
Durham & Northumberland Two / Re: fixtures 09/02
« on: February 13, 2019, 09:57:24 PM »
Given that the order of deciding league placings is based on number of wins (and draws) before points scored the general chances of promotion or relegation being affected are slim.  Though just to disprove that point Consett did go up from DN1 last season on points scored.  On this occasion the score will not affect Winlaton getting promoted ('cos they won't) or Shields being relegated ('cos they will).

Personally, and admittedly without being there, I  think it was the right decision by the ref to cut the game short. In other one sided games at this level I also am in favour of the ref unilaterally 'evening up the game' by how he referees.  The reason being that I don't think allowing hammerings like this to continue is in keeping with Rugby's core values of enjoyment, respect and sportsmanship.

I don't understand your thoughts on officials 'evening up the game'!! Believe it or not, some players / coaches actually invest a lot of time and effort in what they do on a Saturday and work very hard during the week at training and in the gym etc in order to be better players / teams.
Why should a referee unfairly penalise them to 'even up the game' when they've worked so hard to be the best they can be? A referee should officiate the game exactly the same for both sides, regardless of the score...

Believe it or not Ghost  yes I am aware of the effort put in by lots of people in rugby.

However my view of "evening up games' seems to be shared by several referees as I have witnessed this fairly often over the years.  The ref is a bit stricter on the side well in the lead, less so on the side getting thumped and gives the latter the benefit of any doubt.  It seems to be the more experienced referees who do this and, if possible, I congratulate them afterwards on refereeing sympathetically.  Judging from your comments if there had been anything similar happened when Shields were getting humped 133-0 by Wallsend you would have criticised the ref?

2
Durham & Northumberland Two / Re: fixtures 09/02
« on: February 11, 2019, 04:23:54 PM »
Given that the order of deciding league placings is based on number of wins (and draws) before points scored the general chances of promotion or relegation being affected are slim.  Though just to disprove that point Consett did go up from DN1 last season on points scored.  On this occasion the score will not affect Winlaton getting promoted ('cos they won't) or Shields being relegated ('cos they will).

Personally, and admittedly without being there, I  think it was the right decision by the ref to cut the game short. In other one sided games at this level I also am in favour of the ref unilaterally 'evening up the game' by how he referees.  The reason being that I don't think allowing hammerings like this to continue is in keeping with Rugby's core values of enjoyment, respect and sportsmanship.   

3
Durham & Northumberland Two / Re: Three teams going down?
« on: February 01, 2019, 12:26:32 AM »
Hi Mugsy

Sorry not to be clearer.  I was agreeing with Witches' general point that rules/regulations should not be changed during the season and specifically that if Blyth finish second in DN3 they should not be denied promotion - as had been suggested by others.

Going back to Blyth's relegation at the end of the 2016/17 though this was exactly in line with the rules at the start of that season.  These rules were not changed mid season to relegate Blyth; they were merely applied correctly.   Blyth officials were, by their own admission, in ignorance of the rules then and I wonder if this still persists?

 The full details of the relegation are in the appeal judgement found by googling RFU North Blyth Judgement but perhaps the most relevant parts are
 
 a. The Club accepted that RFU Regulation 13.2.7(f) permitted more than two teams being relegated from DN2 to DN3, following the conclusion of the  2016-17 season.
b. The Club’s complaint regarding the ‘retrospective’ decision to relegate was borne from ‘… a slight ignorance of the rules.’ The Club confirmed that it had ‘… jumped the gun’ and erroneously assumed that it could not be relegated.
c. The Club also confirmed that it had not been aware of the Regulations regarding Level Transfers affecting Levels 4-7.

My 'stance' I guess is that all clubs should understand the RFU Regulations that apply to them. 

4
Durham & Northumberland Two / Re: Three teams going down?
« on: January 31, 2019, 01:19:42 PM »
Perfectly put.

However I don't believe the competitions committee are considering changing promotion and relegation mid-way through a season.  The suggestions are just possibilities being aired from some on this forum.
True, but the reason this is being aired is that it looks very likely that Guisborough will be shunted into DN again, and recent history has shown that when that happens, the Competitions Committee change the promotion/relegation rules.
So it's not idle speculation; the precedent has been set!
I would hope that if it means they will be shafting Blyth a second time they may take a sympathetic view and manage it in a different way.

Mugsy.  When have the Competitions Committee changed the promotion/relegation rules?  They certainly did not when Blyth were relegated from DN2 to DN3.  The relegation took place exactly in keeping with the rules in force at the start of the season.

I also believe Renegade has summed up perfectly what will happen at the end of this season.  Unless the League reorganisation takes place for 19/20 and either of options D or E become effective.

5
Durham & Northumberland Two / Re: Three teams going down?
« on: January 30, 2019, 01:49:28 PM »
Perfectly put.

However I don't believe the competitions committee are considering changing promotion and relegation mid-way through a season.  The suggestions are just possibilities being aired from some on this forum.

6
Durham & Northumberland Two / Re: Three teams going down?
« on: January 29, 2019, 12:28:41 AM »
It has taken a bit of spice out of the second half of the season, particularly as Redcar & Houghton have supposedly made improvements, but three down has been on the cards for months. Guisborough have been bottom of Y1 all season. Anyone who has been involved in DN2 or DN3 for the past few seasons would have known what happened to Blyth when Acklam came back across. Clubs should have know 3rd bottom wasn't safe within the first few weeks of the season.

Exactly.

Quite right. And still unfair, as it was then.

The alternatives seem to be

1. Change the rules part way during the season and relegate an extra team from DN1 to allow Guisboro' to go back into that division
2. Change the rules part way during the season to only allow 1 promotion from DN3
3. Change the rules for next season to allow DN1 or DN2 to have 15 teams. Having not done this previously.

Are any of those options fairer?

7
Durham & Northumberland Two / Re: Three teams going down?
« on: January 28, 2019, 02:05:36 PM »
It has taken a bit of spice out of the second half of the season, particularly as Redcar & Houghton have supposedly made improvements, but three down has been on the cards for months. Guisborough have been bottom of Y1 all season. Anyone who has been involved in DN2 or DN3 for the past few seasons would have known what happened to Blyth when Acklam came back across. Clubs should have know 3rd bottom wasn't safe within the first few weeks of the season.

Exactly.

8
Durham & Northumberland Two / Re: Three teams going down?
« on: January 27, 2019, 09:08:24 PM »
relegate 2 and promote 1. Am sure a few clubs must be sick to the teeth with level transfering due to geological position and not just because of the travel.

There is probably zero chance of this happening.  If the 2nd place club in DN3 appealed.  The RFU are also  not going to ignore their own rules which were published at the start of the season.

9
Durham & Northumberland One / Re: RFU league changes
« on: January 27, 2019, 11:44:15 AM »
My suspicion is that having failed to consult with Level 6 clubs but having produced proposals that affect them the RFU have latterly realised they won't be able to implement in time for 19/20.

10
Durham & Northumberland Two / Re: Three teams going down?
« on: January 27, 2019, 11:07:37 AM »
One way out of not having 3 clubs relegated from DN2 looks to be if the RFU league changes go through next season and a favourable option is selected.  However that is looking unlikely. Another way but even more unlikely is that Guisboro' avoid relegation from Y1 and level transfer back to DN1.

11
Durham & Northumberland One / Re: results 19th
« on: January 23, 2019, 07:02:40 PM »
Does it really matter, it will have no financial impact or any adverse effect to either team. Best forgotten and rearranged on a sunny day, include a barbecue and Acklam can bring the sausages.  :P :P :o ;D

I'd have thought that it would have a financial effect on Gateshead as they will wasted food and maybe had bar staff on who weren't needed.  Are you assuming that any rearranged game will have the same number of spectators?  Who knows but the game is likely to be rescheduled on an International weekend so that might affect attendance.  That date could also affect the strength of either team.

12
Durham & Northumberland One / Re: results 19th
« on: January 21, 2019, 07:00:29 PM »
Lets make one thing clear, Gateshead called the game off, thats all I can say on the subject at this point, therefore I watched our seconds play at Stockton, we played one prop from the first team, and two 17 year old backs who have had a handfull of first team games between them this season, hardly loading the side.

Acklam Old Boy. Anything in the allegation that 1st teamers were in Acklam 3rds who played against BBOB?  I have seen an Acklam player attempt to justify this as It was BBOB's 1st XV.

13
Durham & Northumberland One / Re: results 19th
« on: January 21, 2019, 02:10:38 PM »
All was not lost though as some of Acklam 1sts got a run out against BBOB in a Tees Valley Social League game.  Allegedly.

14
Durham & Northumberland One / Re: RFU league changes
« on: January 13, 2019, 08:16:25 PM »
Option B for me... amd yes ive consulted with our players and its what they want as well

Yet Option B includes Cumbria clubs and you've said you were against this in the past. 

15
Durham & Northumberland One / Re: RFU league changes
« on: January 13, 2019, 12:17:21 AM »
Which clubs? Name them please?

Has a better resolution been decided upon?

No.

Or shall we go with the status quo? Which is what most on this forum prefers. Status quo since 95/96 has seen a reduction in teams and a reduction in players. This is proven.  Surely now is time to try something else?

Rugby as a sport has indeed suffered declining participation levels.  So have other team based sports like cricket, hockey, football etc.  The reasons for the decline are far wider than being part of a league  structure.

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