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Author Topic: Play off implications  (Read 5562 times)

Offline No. 6 to Middlegate

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2017, 08:42:53 PM »
When Acklam last came back into DN2 (2014-15) there were 14 teams in that league.  For the previous 2 seasons there were 13 teams.

While there are positives with Mr Hall's suggestion of splitting Y1 and DN1 into 3 leagues of 10 I can"t see clubs agreeing as they fought an RFU recommendation to drop down to 12.  Also you'd have the slightly odd situation where Y2 and DN2 teams travelled the full extent of their region but the higher leagues were more local.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 08:43:51 PM by No. 6 to Middlegate »

Offline Hit Man Hall

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2017, 09:47:58 AM »
When Acklam last came back into DN2 (2014-15) there were 14 teams in that league.  For the previous 2 seasons there were 13 teams.

While there are positives with Mr Hall's suggestion of splitting Y1 and DN1 into 3 leagues of 10 I can"t see clubs agreeing as they fought an RFU recommendation to drop down to 12.  Also you'd have the slightly odd situation where Y2 and DN2 teams travelled the full extent of their region but the higher leagues were more local.

I actually agreed with the RFU proposal, I believe the recommendation was to increase the amount of leagues from National 1 down, so Nat1 Level 3 would become Nat1 north and Nat 1 south, then Nat2N & Nat2S level 4 would increase to 4 leagues, Nat3 level 5 from 4 to 8, then North1 E/W etc level 6 from 8 to 16, DN1 etc level 7 from 16 to 32 DN2 etc level 8 from 16 to what ever is left meaning that DN3 Y3,4,5 would all dilute in to level 8. The proposal was to introduce a number of cup game with incentive so fewer league game but more money on the table with cup games that would include playing teams of a similar  or same level from further other leagues, so you could still have a few long distances to travel but only on cup game.

With this the top 6 teams in DN1 would go up, with the same relegation terms for each tier.  Interesting!!

   
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Offline stuartdm

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2017, 10:32:31 AM »
So might Blyth be relegated to D&N 3 which only has 12 teams at the moment?

Offline TheGuv

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2017, 11:18:56 AM »
I posted this in a different thread months ago (so the league standings would have changed a fair bit since then e.g. Stockton would still be in DN1), but I'll still back what I said. The game is struggling up here and the obsession to continue playing 26 league games every year is a disaster for the game in the North East. We as D/N CAN set up any league structure we wish as long as it doesn't effect Levels 6 and above. This therefore is my proposal:

Albeit there's not been too many replies in this thread, I think it's interesting (so far) that all that have posted agree that leagues are too big and too many league games are having an adverse effect.

Unfortunately, the RFU backtracked on their proposal to reduce league fixtures - Yorkshire being particularly uncomplimentary. However, it would be interesting, if the Durham and Northumberland Rugby Unions decided to trial it themselves for a season or two. After all, we only feed into North One East (Level 6) anyway. Does it really matter how it's done as long as 1 or 2 clubs go up? If the CBs and their clubs wanted to give it a go, surely they could try it?

Below is one way the leagues could be set up, 10 teams per league (40 clubs across the 4 divisions - perfect eh?!), 18 league games per season. We've already played 11 in DN1, so that gives you an idea as to how many weekends you could use for free weekends/cup games/friendlies etc so long as you play at least 9 league games (half of the league season) before Xmas.

The reduced league size would presumably make the leagues more competitive and clubs from DN1 would have no issue playing the stronger clubs from DN2 in friendlies as they're currently already in the same league (e.g.  Gatesehad v Stockton) and DN2 clubs against higher DN3 etc.

Anyway, at current standings this would be the league structure:

Durham/Northumberland Division One
Barnard Castle   
South Shields Westoe      
Northern   
Middlesbrough   
Consett      
Horden and Peterlee   
Hartlepool Rovers      
Hartlepool   
Gateshead   
Gosforth   
   
Durham/Northumberland Division Two
Stockton      
Novocastrians      
Medicals      
Ryton      
Redcar   
Ponteland   
Whitley Bay Rockcliff      
Bishop Auckland      
Sunderland   
North Shields   

Durham/Northumberland Division Three:
Darlington   
Whitby      
Winlaton Vulcans   
Ashington   
South Shields   
Sedgefield   
Blyth      
Seaton Carew   
Richmondshire   
Newton Aycliffe


Durham/Northumberland Division Four   
Wallsend   
Yarm
Houghton      
Seghill      
Hartlepool B.B.O.B.      
Jarrovians      
Chester-Le-Street   
West Hartlepool TDSOB   
Seaham   
Prudhoe & Stocksfield   

It would be interesting to read people's thoughts on this and a debate to ensue; rather than us going through our usual weekly motions of picking a home or away team to win  ;)

Offline ChesterHOB

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2017, 11:54:32 AM »
Why are acklam not getting relegated to Yorkshire 2 and transferring back across?

Offline Silentassassin

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2017, 11:56:39 AM »
Good idea, but what about the level transfer??
Only solution is to scrap level transfer and playoffs, and which Durham and Northumberland finishes lowest position in North 1 and lowest finishing Yorkshire team  in North 1get relegated, so top of dn1 promoted and top y1 team promoted!!??

Offline No1No2

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2017, 11:56:48 AM »
The RFU and Durham competitions people would not accept this but format look sensible

Offline Silentassassin

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2017, 11:58:04 AM »
Because we are Durham and Northumberland affiliated!!!
Have been for  years.

Offline TheGuv

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2017, 12:21:10 PM »
The RFU and Durham competitions people would not accept this but format look sensible

RFU would have to agree to it if was proposed from the Durham and Northumberland CBs and had the backing from the majority of clubs.

Do you think Durham wouldn't like the idea?



Offline Badgerbear77

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2017, 12:37:58 PM »
I think clubs rejected as they feared a drop in bar revenue... which is crackers... One big cup night, put something on, make a day of it and have entertainment on... the visiting team stay late and put a small fortune over your bar once a month or every 6 weeks or a local club visiting... having one pint and going home every week is a no brainer to me cash flow wise.
Rugby is for everyone, not just the chosen few

Offline TheGuv

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2017, 01:03:42 PM »
I think clubs rejected as they feared a drop in bar revenue... which is crackers... One big cup night, put something on, make a day of it and have entertainment on... the visiting team stay late and put a small fortune over your bar once a month or every 6 weeks or a local club visiting... having one pint and going home every week is a no brainer to me cash flow wise.

Yep. It's the bitterest of ironies that people think the more league rugby you play, the more money you take over the bar.

I think I'd rather have our West Leeds bar take over the many non-descript bar takings you get from league rugby. Plus it means we can return the favour every other year!

Next stop Wigton!

Offline Roverthemoon

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2017, 02:29:42 PM »
People already complain about free weeks now and any reduction in league numbers means more free dates and we all know they will not be filled with friendlies or cup ties
Play a week miss a week will just drive more people away from the game and so even less money
The West Leeds example is one extreme, and which was a positive one involving a successful and well supported club; the other is, the gate for a cup tie of say Gosforth  v Ryton......they wouldn't be closing the doors on a capacity crowd
Rovers v West used to have a 3000 attendance for a derby which would now be nearer 500
It's all about relativity and context
Here's a question on free weeks: why, after a three week shutdown at Christmas and New Year do we play the first week in January and then have the next week off?

Offline TheGuv

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2017, 04:06:47 PM »
The reason why people moan about free weekends now is that they're there solely for rest or to play postponed fixtures. The current set up has 35 weekends pencilled in by the RFU.

26 league games
At least 1 cup game (in Northumberland anyway)
2/3 friendliest in August

So you're already knocking on 30 games minimum. The last thing lads want to do after so much competitive rugby is to play  extra games. Hence free weekends = no bar takings as there's no rugby.

There's no way lads would trade off 30 games a season for only 18 (if using my method). But you would then have the opportunity to rekindle old friendships and play meaningful fixtures. E.g Seghill 1st XV had to play Northern and Park 2nds midweek due to too many league weekends. I'm sure Seghill got more out of those fixtures then they will have done in a meaningless 100-0 league victories. I'm also sure there would have been a higher bar taking from Park on a Saturday than the Wednesday!

. By having more free weekends these potential fixtures can actually be replaced by the fixture secretary at the season beginning. It'll make the leagues more competitive and it'll allow those that WANT to play every weekend to play every weekend. Currently the RFU tells clubs to jump and we respond "how  high?"

Offline dar1

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2017, 04:28:15 PM »
I think that it a good idea lowering the amount of Games or expanding the amount of leagues as a lot of people work Saturdays nowadays and I'm sure it would be easier for them to get say 1 sat off rather than 4 in a month which means they could possibly only miss one game rather than three. Making more leagues is good sense as they be more competitive with numerous teams being able to beat each other. There is such a drop in interest around here that something has to happen sooner rather than later.

Offline Hit Man Hall

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Re: Play off implications
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2017, 06:53:19 PM »
People already complain about free weeks now and any reduction in league numbers means more free dates and we all know they will not be filled with friendlies or cup ties
Play a week miss a week will just drive more people away from the game and so even less money
The West Leeds example is one extreme, and which was a positive one involving a successful and well supported club; the other is, the gate for a cup tie of say Gosforth  v Ryton......they wouldn't be closing the doors on a capacity crowd
Rovers v West used to have a 3000 attendance for a derby which would now be nearer 500
It's all about relativity and context
Here's a question on free weeks: why, after a three week shutdown at Christmas and New Year do we play the first week in January and then have the next week off?

The whole idea from the RFU was to reduce the amount of league games by reducing the leagues to less teams, add some Cup games with money incentives to fill in the blank weekends, the cup games would not be with teams from the same league but other league teams, to me it's a double whammy example being West Leeds coming to Novos club for cup game, making a day of it plenty of supporters, drinking themselves silly Novos winning the cup game and getting a couple of grand from the win and massive bar takings. It's a no brainier!!
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