Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Ask the Ref?!  (Read 4564 times)

Offline TheGuv

  • Administrator
  • Alickadoo
  • *****
  • Posts: 836
    • View Profile
Ask the Ref?!
« on: August 07, 2013, 03:55:26 PM »
All, one of our members has had a great idea suggesting a thread where players and supporters can ask questions that would be answered by a referee.

The answers would all be given under laws and any IRB/RFU guidance/clarifications. The usual 'ref bashing' or in some cases 'ref praising' can continue to thrive on other parts of the forum - but we can keep this one for genuine questions.

Offline Last play!

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 12:40:01 PM »
Nice to see this thread has become so popular! Come on people - ask away and we shall answer your prayers...
I only said I was available - I never said I was any good

Offline Slam

  • Senior Colt
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
  • The good old days
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 03:58:17 PM »
Didn't know there was a thread for this...

On Saturday I kept getting 'pinged' at the breakdown for attempting to take the ball off a tackled player on the ground.There was only one other defending player to trying to stop me so effectively it was me over a tackled player trying to get the ball then a defender come in to try and stop me. I'd won the ball at the same time I got pinged

When can I put my hands in to trying to win the ball? And when is it a no-go area?

Offline Johnboy

  • Senior Colt
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2013, 09:36:34 PM »
If your the tackler, did you release the tackled player before compeating for the ball. Also was the release clear enough for the referee to see. A clear space between you and them.

Was it not a ruck when the other player joined? As soon as they were in contact with you, you have to release the ball and compete by driving over the ball.

Were you supporting your own body weight completely. Not kneeling or resting on the tackled player.

Offline Renegade

  • Global Moderator
  • Alickadoo
  • *****
  • Posts: 725
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2014, 01:17:57 PM »
Being a referee I'll be the least/most qualified to answer.(depends on opinion)

Johnboy made a valid point, a lot of players are involved with a tackle. The ref needs to be sure you have released and then gone for the ball? Also if you're getting pulled regularly then you must be not quite getting it correct!

One of my pet hates are players who put their hands on the ball and then ask the ref to complete the job for them, in my view if you want it take it! Once it's a ruck,2+1, then you must release the ball regardless of whether you think you're on your feet or not.

Most referees wont mind you asking why (after the game) you kept getting pinged, as long as you are respectful and don't use it as a chance to moan about it.

Offline Neil Roseberry

  • Global Moderator
  • Alickadoo
  • *****
  • Posts: 1917
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 07:53:53 PM »
Or a little chat at the interval mate. Like you said, as long as skippers are respectful and objective in their approach I'm sure most referees would happily answer their questions.

Or they can always have a natter before the game and ask the referee how they like to manage various scenarios and what they expect to see. When it comes to games, refs are in charge and we'd be knackered without them.

Offline theref

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2015, 01:37:07 PM »
One of my pet hates are players who put their hands on the ball and then ask the ref to complete the job for them, in my view if you want it take it! Once it's a ruck,2+1, then you must release the ball regardless of whether you think you're on your feet or not.

Not stricly true.

So lets analyse.

If you have made a tackle, so the tackler, tackle assist or player on his feet that has effected a tackle.  You must release the tackled player, and used a nice clean release.
Then
You may compete prior to a ruck being formed.
If you are legal and have your hands on the ball prior to a ruck being formed then you can continue to play the ball.  (this happens very infrequently)

If you dont and a ruck is formed 1 from each side on their feet over the ball.  Then you may not play it until the ruck ends.

Its sounds reading into it, you were 'beaten by the ruck'  meaning a ruck was formed by you and the supporting player, then you stuck your hands down.

Offline Renegade

  • Global Moderator
  • Alickadoo
  • *****
  • Posts: 725
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2015, 08:31:36 AM »
You missed my point, I have no problem with players legally using their hands before the ruck us formed. If the player on the floor doesn't release then that is clearly a penalty.

My gripe is with players who put their hands on the ball (legally) but don't make a real effort to take it. The tactic is to ask the ref for a penalty for holding on but in effect they are slowing it down.

Offline theref

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2015, 08:13:41 PM »
Yeah indeed they must be positive

Offline dar1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2015, 08:45:09 PM »
During one of the local games yesterday there were a lot of driving mauls going on one side had the man on the back the maul with the balm but was only attached to maul by an outstretched arm I thought that in a maul doesn't the guy with ball have to be full bound the captain of opposite team kept mentioning it to ref but he seemed happy to let it happen

Offline cootblat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2015, 04:05:52 PM »
Interesting one. Dare i introduce the concept of materiality here? Letter of law says fully bound, but what is he gaining materially for his team? In fact if he's not bound properly he can't be shoving.

Offline dar1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2015, 10:46:19 AM »
He didn't have much involvement In the pushing of the maul but was there to control it a lot easier also the opposite side got penalised a few times as they thought this meant ball was out so came around to get it on a good note by the ref is wen a the man with ball and a few others broke off the main maul they faced no opposition but we're still binded the ref blew whistle to say the other players were blocking any one from tackling nice to see this as it the first time I've seen it been ref fed properly all year  ;D

Offline whitbian

  • 1st XV
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2016, 02:51:56 PM »
He didn't have much involvement In the pushing of the maul but was there to control it a lot easier also the opposite side got penalised a few times as they thought this meant ball was out so came around to get it on a good note by the ref is wen a the man with ball and a few others broke off the main maul they faced no opposition but we're still binded the ref blew whistle to say the other players were blocking any one from tackling nice to see this as it the first time I've seen it been ref fed properly all year  ;D

Actually the ref got it wrong. If a maul is formed correctly and the ball is at the back and going forward. If the defence then decides not to compete its still a maul. They can keep going.

If the attacking team say back 3 players with the ball breakaway to try and set up another maul. Like changing lanes on a motorway. This is called channelling and a pen should be given for obstruction.

Offline whitbian

  • 1st XV
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2016, 02:54:07 PM »
During one of the local games yesterday there were a lot of driving mauls going on one side had the man on the back the maul with the balm but was only attached to maul by an outstretched arm I thought that in a maul doesn't the guy with ball have to be full bound the captain of opposite team kept mentioning it to ref but he seemed happy to let it happen

You must have a shoulder on the person infront of you. Arm binding is classed as ball out. Ref should call use it

Offline Mugsy

  • Alickadoo
  • *****
  • Posts: 172
  • View from the blue horizon
    • View Profile
Re: Ask the Ref?!
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2017, 12:38:11 PM »
Returning to the ruck debate, I feel the main point there is still being missed or misinterpreted here. If a tackle is made and a defender who was not involved in the tackle gets hands on the ball while supporting his own body weight before anyone from the attacking side engages him in contact, then he is entitled to stay on the ball, even after he IS engaged, and the tackled player must release. Previous posts have given the impression that at the moment that a player from each team make contact over the ball, everyone must get their hands off the ball. Not so. I believe this is the clarification Slam was looking for. However I suspect, Slam, that as you are being penalised consistently, your understanding of the sequence of events is the problem. To bullet point it for clarity:
1. If you're involved in the tackle you must 'show the ref your hands' before going for the ball.
2. If not involved in the tackle and there before the opposition and get hands on, you can stay there as long as you're supporting your weight.
3. If a competing opposition player is there before or at the same time as you, get your hands off it.

As others have suggested, work with the ref, listen to him, ask him.
Perhaps more importantly, ask your coach at training to do a little role-play scenario in which he talks through the sequence of events at the tackle. (If I were the coach I'd consider inviting a good ref along.)
As a general observation, in my opinion refs at D&N level tend to allow the tackled player to hang on to the ball rather longer than we see in the Prem, where they are pinged immediately if there is even the slightest delay in the clearout. This is not a criticism, as I personally believe the laws should always favour the team in possession, and refs being trigger-happy at the tackle discourages teams from playing a running game - hence the awful kick-tennis we endure, which gives our Rugby League friends ample ammunition for mocking our code.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 03:51:34 PM by Mugsy »